Tax benefits of investing in oil and gas

May 02, 2023
 

Episode 6

Mike Pine: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. Welcome to Hidden Money Podcast, where we try to show you places where you can find money hidden in the tax code. We think it's an exciting topic. I know a lot of people don't love tax, so we'll try to keep it more on the big picture side. Do remember we always offer bonus content where we do drill down into the details of the tax law and where you can find your hidden money.

Today we're really excited to have Eric Rice with us. Eric Rice is a big player in the oil and gas world, and there are some serious hidden money in oil and gas investments strictly from the tax side, not even counting the investment performance side. So Eric, welcome. Thank you for coming. You have an amazing personal story. If you can summarize your awesome story of who is Eric Rice?

Eric Rice: Thank you. I was a, grew up in Chicago and right outside Chicago and Northwest Indiana. I was a baseball player athlete, managed money for years with a couple of the big shops. I was actually in the quantum biology space, so it doesn't [00:01:00] make sense that I'm in oil and gas, but I got fed up with where we were at.

I'm nonpartisan. I'm not a political party advocate of either side. I'm an American, and as an American, I started seeing things in this country that disturbed me all the time. For a country to succeed, to thrive and be bountiful for their people.

You need food, water, and energy. It's just that simple. If you don't have abundance of food, water, and energy, you have an instable nation. So I said, honey I'm going into oil and gas. She goes, you don't know anything about that. And I go I didn't know anything about quantum biology. I figured that out in six months.

I think I can figure out how oil and gas works, faster and and applied my skills. So I interviewed with a few oil and gas companies. They all had the same business model. They had the same offering, tax write off income, and that was it. And and then, our president Peter called me one day.

The first question he asked me was, I'm looking at your resume. You've been a CEO for all these years in technology. Why do you want to get into oil and gas? And I said, because the green energy movement's a complete fraud and I cannot wait to be at this center of it being exposed to the world.[00:02:00] 

And and then we started talking about some other topics. Three minutes in, he said, why don't you come into the office? And and the rest is kind of history from there. So what I found here is a perfect fit for me to be able to serve the three most important things to me that can serve God being here cuz we're using God's resources to provide energy.

I can serve my nation by being able to help people reduce taxation from a tyrannical IRS that steals our money to pay back a never ending credit card for Congress. And I can provide monthly income to help patriots all around the country be able to offset the penalties we're facing for poor decisions causing inflation, and then also be able to build wealth in the future.

What we do by offering, the asset back to this fund is completely unique to King in this space.

I love what I do. It's people from back in my history. Call me and say you're working for someone. You have always run something. I've never been happier. Never been happier to do what I do every day.

Kevin Schneider: That's awesome. Yeah. And no matter what line of business we're in or title we hold, I think we're all meant to be a servant of [00:03:00] some kind. And so that just speaks to who you are and that you can take that position. Cuz a lot of people wouldn't, a lot of people would just say, Hey, I am an owner and I like to be my own boss.

I like to call it the shots. And humbling yourself and putting yourself in that position as stretch me a little bit, if I'm being honest, but it shows a lot about your ability to want to help in this space that you just mentioned. This energy crisis that we're gonna be having and already seen with gas prices in the past year and everything like this.

And the government's really pushing, energy efficiency EV and all this kind of stuff. But as the government pushes the EV piece, not a lot of people are aware of the oil and gas on the tax side of things, do you have any examples of how some like domestic oil and gas production can help on the taxes, but also on the back end.

On the ROI side, like you mentioned, providing that monthly income, what does that look like? Do you have any examples of some success stores?[00:04:00] 

Eric Rice: Sure. I'm one of 'em I'm an investor in our fund. In 1984, Ronald Reagan created the tax benefit for oil and gas exploration to create a boom in investing in domestic energy. 

We've been energy dependent most of our history in this country. But the facts don't match up with that. From the time we were born, we were told all the oils in the Middle East, we have to get it from the middle East.

The fact of the matter is between Alaska and Texas, there's enough hydrocarbons underneath the ground to power every car, house building, manufacturing center, boat, and airplane on planet Earth for the next 550 plus years. That's the facts. So when we start looking at things like that, we look at this tax break from 1984, let's make it simple.

A hundred percent of your investment in projects like ours, the way that our fund is structured, a hundred percent of it is a write-off against your AGI. I have the best job in the world every day, right now we're raising about a million a day.

Every day I get to take a million dollars out of the hands of the enemy and place it back into the people who actually earned it. And to drive energy and to drive, manufacturing [00:05:00] power in this nation. So that's one area. So you get a big right off upfront for making the investment. So it de-risks your investment right off the bat.

Then we start drilling oil. With our fund, we include all assets. Unlike 99% of as far as we know, and we research this quite a bit, we're the only oil and gas fund that does this. On the retail side, we actually include our leasing power. So the way it works is imagine a raw piece of land. You just have this raw land and you build a, an apartment complex on it.

All the surrounding land is worth more money, and then you fill the apartment complex and you collect rent. All the surrounding land is worth more money. The way these deals work traditionally is you invest, you get a tax write off and you own the hydrocarbons. So you own the rights to the income as the investor.

What we do in our fund is we make you a partner. So as a partner in the fund, you owned the value of the land, the leasing power of the land. So every time we drill a well, we produce monthly income. We share 80% of our income back to shareholders. 80% goes into your hands month after month. As we do that, we also develop other wells [00:06:00] that we haven't drilled yet.

We prepare the surface, they're called PUDs, proven undeveloped wells. Every time we do that, we increase the value of the property. So we take raw land and turn it into a, an economy of scale an oil field. So as we build this process up with the investment capital, we're paying out monthly. We're giving you a big tax break, and at the end of the day, we're gonna sell it off in two tranches.

The middle, which is usually about a two year hold. We sell that to an income mandate. Which income mandate is an endowment fund or a pension fund. Somebody who has a mandate to provide income to their beneficiaries they come in and buy our income. And in 2023 and 2024, you're not gonna find anything governmentally based.

With the sovereign bond market that we're seeing right now, we are a very attractive program for these buyers. And then we continue to grow the land and grow the revenue and grow the drilling process. As we do that, we begin to build a bigger oil field with that revenue. As that gets large enough, we then sell it to one of the majors.

And here's an interesting thing about our timing is that right now the majors across the board at the [00:07:00] last conference we went to, they're projecting zero to 5% growth in their business. Which means that they're not looking to drill projects like we are. They're looking to buy projects that we've finished or that we've built to a scale in which they want to complete the whole project.

So we do a three to five year hold period where you get a big tax write off, you get monthly income, you'll get your, I can't say you will get we hope to get your capital back in your hands, your original investment in 24 months. And then in the next year and a half to three years after that, we intend on building a three and a half X multiple on the property.

Tax write off tax savings immediately. Monthly income and a multiple on capital. That's what we focus on while we're drilling domestic energy.

Mike Pine: is awesome. Let me just go a little bit into the detail and we'll try not to cause people's eyes to glaze over, but a little bit into the detail of the tax benefit you mentioned. So many other types of investments, alternative investments. That is, wall Street. You go buy stocks, you go buy bonds, you don't get any write off.

You, you get something that might grow, might not, but it's, it doesn't offer you any tax benefits. [00:08:00] Maybe if it's a capital gain and you get a long-term capital gain, you pay a little bit less tax on it than you would on the ordinary income producing property. But let's say you invest in alternative investments, a lot of people are investing in like apartment syndications for 99% of the investors out there.

It'll generate a tax loss, but that is a passive tax loss that will not offset people's W2 income. It will not offset their business income. It does not reduce their taxes that year. Plain and simple. But with oil and gas, let's say an investor comes in and gives. Invest $200,000 in this fund. Right now.

Let's say an investor today puts in $200,000 into your fund. There's a likelihood there's something called I D C, intangible drilling costs. Those, and I'll let Eric expand on what those are cuz he can do it much better than I could.

Those are a huge deduction that you get in your first year. So you invest $200,000 today, there's a good likelihood that you're gonna get 85% of that back in I D C as deduction [00:09:00] for you in your 2022 tax year. Even though you're investing the last two weeks of December, same thing's gonna be available in 2023.

What that does is, Would give you, if I can do the math, I had $170,000 deduction off of your income, off of your active income if you're paying taxes at a 37% tax rate, I don't have my calculator in front of me, but that's a big chunk of change. You're immediately getting an ROI. By reduced taxes, either a larger tax refund or a smaller check you have to write to the IRS. And when you consider that benefit you're $200,000. You didn't actually come out of pocket for $200,000. You came out of pocket a lot less than that. You came out of pocket for maybe what, 1 20, 1 30 or, I don't have my calculators. I can't do math in my head right now, but you're out of pocket a lot less than you put in, and you've got an investment of $200,000 that's gonna grow and provide roi, provide cashflow, right?

Eric Rice: Yeah, we always say one third, two third, so the way that it works we try to I'm very big on, [00:10:00] on low expectations and high results.

So for the last 15 years, we've provided a 75% year one benefit. So on a $200,000 investment, you reduce your income by 150,000. At the near 40% tax break, you're looking at $60,000 in return or reduction of

Mike Pine: Just in taxes

Eric Rice: Correct! Correct. Now that also comes with monthly income. That monthly income is not taxable until it gets to your principal. So you're getting tax free income through the way that we've structured our partnership while your investment is growing, while the oil field's being built and building value.

So for us, I mean it's honestly, it's a dream job in, in 20 22, 20 23 for me to be able to do this. Because it's a loophole that, that honestly doesn't exist anyway. And we had a conversation when we first met cuz Pine and companies doing my taxes. And I'm an investor in my funds, so you're speaking to firsthand people here.

But you gave me some ideas. I researched for a couple of months. There's nothing out there that provides a hundred percent write off that provides any return yet alone, an 18% historical annual return on hydrocarbons. And I think that'll actually [00:11:00] be better, but I won't promise that the environment we're in and energy right now, we are looking at a very dangerous national security time.

But we're looking at a very prosperous time for oil and gas investors. It's a great way to offset the dangers and the shortages.

Mike Pine: It is, and let me also go into, there's additional tax benefits after you've gotten your initial IDC and maybe some bonus depreciation in the first year, and as Eric alluded to, you'll get tax free cash flow distributions until you use up your basis, your whole capital account. Once you use it up that basis, then you have taxable income.

But it's not a hundred percent taxable income. There's this thing called percent or depletion that. Investors in oil and gas skit as well, and you get to take 15% right off the top of any income you have and reduce it. It's just a magical deduction. You get to do that every year. Even if you've gotten a hundred percent return or capital, you're only paying tax on 85% of what's paying out to you.

So there's so much hidden money in the tax code for oil and gas. It's really an exciting and exciting investment. [00:12:00] We'll add some bonus content after we're done with this, and we want to go into what IDC is, how it works what the rules are, because a lot of people, unfortunately, a lot of people wait till December or November to start doing their tax planning.

As you listen to this podcast in early 2023, please don't wait until the end of the year to do your tax planning, but start looking into it. But even if you do wait or you have to wait, maybe you don't have your bonus checks coming in until December. The following year, you have the ability to invest late in December and still get a tax deduction for that tax year.

It's pretty awesome.

Eric Rice: When you're investing in. That's the right, it's the right time for oil and gas.

Mike Pine: Absolutely.

Kevin Schneider: It's great time and as a CPA it's one of those great kind of, you have this ace in your pocket. If I have a client who has a tax problem, I can get in front of them deductible losses that require no management experience on their behalf, no material participation hurdles. There is some risk there.

So [00:13:00] with all the reward and all the benefits to this, it really does sound too good to be true. And hearing it. If I was hearing this for the first time, I would be shocked and just wanting to learn more and get involved in this. Can you explain some of the risks associated with investing in oil and gas and these, how these benefits are available, but what risks do they carry?

Eric Rice: The main risk is Mother Earth, right? So operationally what we do is very difficult. We're drilling, north of a mile and a half to three miles deep, and sometimes four or five miles across. Underneath the surface of the earth. So mechanical issues are always a thing. 

Delays are a real thing.

We experience those quite a bit. Good news is that we've built an investor relations model here to be able to let you know ahead of time. So you're not surprised by it. We're very transparent in our business. In general. Oil and gas is pretty risky right now, especially with the administration and office because we're looking at them coming in, shutting down a very prosperous pipeline that would've reduced [00:14:00] costs across the board and increased profitability across the board, which doesn't really happen. It's truly disruptive. So that's gone. We actually have it shut down again in another region cuz a few people died in that pipeline. But then there's a risk of federal land. So a lot of people think when the government shuts down, and that's a risk right now for a lot of operators because they have federal land leases.

So they're leasing land. Here's something most people don't know. A bulk of our country is owned by the government. If you look at like the state of Nevada, 87% of the land in Nevada is owned by the United States government. And this is very common in Alaska and places like that. So they, our government's not dumb, right?

There may be dumb people running it, but there aren't, it's not a dumb organization. And at the same time, they buy all the fertile land. So they immediately, within a year, they shut down federal land leases and places like Alaska, which I just described, has half of the world's hydrocarbons for about 250 years worth of hydrocarbons there.

So there's a big risk for people who do that. Fortunately, we're very careful in the way that we [00:15:00] design our fund. So we deal with private landowners and state landowners in highly favorable regulatory environments. So that's not a risk for us, but it's certainly a risk in oil and gas. Another risk is pricing.

Now again, we're thoughtful in the way we do things. We're a volume producer. So we've been like, for 23 years we were like everyone else, let's do, I got this little piece of land, let's drill three wells. We'll split it up, I'll sell it and keep the money and you'll get income. That's the way it works.

In general, oil and gas investing, we're a portfolio builder, so for us, we could have a bad well, but we have 30 others behind it that produce income. So there's always a risk in traditional oil and gas investing in the fact that they don't strike oil. Now the myth to break with this is that we know where all the oil and gas in the world is.

Like the 3D seismic technology is really advanced. So there, that's been de-risked through technology. Natural disasters are a true thing. They're a real thing to think about, right? Like some of our operations most of us as most of our operations are inland, but a lot of 'em on the Gulf and in the Gulf region in [00:16:00] general, there's hurricanes that can tear down, some of the structures that are built.

Fortunately, we're not in there. That's certainly a risk. Pricing is a risk which is why we're a volume shop. We get asked this, we get asked two things. You just said, sounds too good to be true. We hear that every day. It's a blessing to be able to hear that because when you look at the way we structure our fund, you'll see how we've de-risked this.

So I won't talk about our project in general, but oil and gas in general, pricing is a risk. If you have three wells and you're just drilling 'em and prices drop $20 a barrel, you don't have enough volume to compensate to create income. So our focus, we have a goal of hitting a 10 billion valuation by 2030, and that's only gonna come through volume because the market we exist in right now, it's only gonna be here for another couple of years.

We eventually, I see America becoming energy independent again and being a net exporter again, and we know that. So we're planning that ahead of time. That's why we're raising so much capital right now while it's advantageous, is so we can build a volume portfolio that'll offset our risk to [00:17:00] pricing.

Because we're pretty sensitive below $40 a barrel. But if you want to, I can run through how it's illogical for any analyst to say that oil will be below $40 a barrel probably in the next five years. But at the same time, it's certainly a risk in oil and investment. Many operations are dependent on pricing and they're tied to futures.

We have no future exposure. We own our inventory in its entirety. Pricing dips for a month. We'll hold the inventory, it'll go back up. That's just the way it works. Oil and gas is very price and geopolitical sensitive. Sensitive to war. There could be a major war that shuts down an economy.

We could see any of these things that happen. They're uncontrollable circumstances in general. But when you look at the general risk of operations with the experience that we have the properties that we have and the background that we have in exploration and production, And the way we structure our fund, we've de-risked as much as we humanly can.

Mike Pine: that's great. Yeah, any investment that's gonna potentially give you a great return on your asset, you're gonna have to take some risk. There's that risk versus re [00:18:00] return calculation you're always gonna have to do. You could go and invest some money right now in a CD through an F D I C insured bank and. Maybe not have any risk of losing your principle, but you still have risk there, right? If inflation's a lot higher than interest, which I would argue it's much higher than any CD rates you can get right now, you're still losing purchasing power. But if you want a great investment that offers great tax advantages, you're gonna have to take some risks.

But again, I think a good operator in the oil and gas world has mitigated and can mitigate those risks greatly. But again, there's still the risk. We just had a call, I think it was yesterday before yesterday, Eric, with one of our clients that we're doing some tax planning with you and they're gonna do some investing with you.

And he was also concerned about some of the risk. And you shared with me cuz one of the requirements to get this awesome tax benefit is you have to invest as a general partner, which bears general partner risk. Ultimately your partnership interest gets transferred into a limited partnership interest after you've mined your [00:19:00] tax benefits.

So you don't bear that risk forever. But that was his question. It was a question of mine too. If you are a general partner in an oil and gas operation, like with King Operating, what is that general partner risk and how is that mitigated?

Eric Rice: Sure. So as a general partner, you take on risks of the partnership itself. So if there were some sort of disaster or accidental death and dismemberment type scenario, there'd be lawsuits. So first and foremost, we carry a 20 million umbrella policy on all of our operations. So we have that mitigated.

The way that Texas in general operates is that every operator has this type of policy, generally not this large, but they have a policy that'll cover all projected mortality if something were to go wrong. These insurance policies cost a lot and they're never used. The way that they're not used is that good operators don't take on full risk.

So when we do piping for example, when we're doing a piping or say we're doing drilling, We'll hire an outside driller. That outside driller also has a liability [00:20:00] coverage, and they take control of the operation while they're doing their function. So if something were to happen during drilling, they would actually sue the driller, not us.

If the driller were to not have enough coverage and the claim exceeded, then it would ding our policy. And again, as far as we've researched, we've never known of a Texas operator to even have their policy dinged. So every com, every component of the way that we structure our operations and partnership.

Is designed to create as much exclusion from risk as possible. And of course, it's anything could happen at any time. So I don't wanna tell an audience that it's, everything's hunky-dory and safe, but the probability is very low. So every facet of our operation is done by an outsourced partner. We hire about 97 people.

97 different organizations assist us in each one of our wells. That's 97. Other coverages or blanket policies or umbrella policies that protect the general partner. So we are the sponsor and the partnership is the funder of the operation. We pay to be able to divert risk. That's really how we operate.

Mike Pine: [00:21:00] Yeah. And as we discussed, so Kevin and I made our first oil and gas investment this year, and that was a big concern for me. All right, I'm gonna be a general partner. I've always thought we gotta stay away from that. And I did some research and I'm not the best legal, exhaustive researcher when it's not involving tax.

I could not find one case with a large operator, some small operators with a large operator. Where any of the general partners got attached, any liability attached to them from any lawsuits. Not saying it can't happen, and maybe it's happened in the past and I couldn't find it, but as you mentioned the other day, it would have to probably be the biggest lawsuit ever in oil and gas for it to even potentially start to hit the gps on that.

How long is a partner, a general partner with you, once they invest, when do they become a limited partner and lose that general partner Liability.

Eric Rice: As soon as all capital is deployed. So the interesting thing about, we, it's a fund that's a partnership, but it's a fund. Most people think of a fund as raising capital and then deploying it. 

When time [00:22:00] is correct, we don't manage outside capital. We're a project fund. So in our project, our purpose is to get money in hand and put it in the ground as fast as possible.

So the way you get your tax right off is based upon spending for tangible and intangible drilling costs. So what we do, like in December, all the money coming in December, we'll have it spent by March we'll have it all documented. That's how you get your write off. But it also helps us offset inflationary and supply chain risks.

So we buy, months and months in advance to get good pricing and guarantee of delivery. On the flip side of this when we're looking at the overall process within each one of these funds as an operation, what we do is stay focused in on the things that truly impact return.

So obviously one of capital and reduce our costs moving forward and our supply chain risks, those are important. But when it comes to the liability and the way that we're managing that process. We wanna hire these guys early. We want to get 'em in the door. We wanna make sure our homework is done on them.

We have more invoices on our desk right now, December 14th, 2022. It looks like an [00:23:00] encyclopedia right now with all the invoices and purchase orders. A carefully orchestrated spending plan is what creates all the benefits of this process. So once that spending is complete, Once all original invested capital, and by the way, we have no debt.

We're taking on zero leverage, zero debt. So we're not a victim of federal funds rates rising. It doesn't impact us at all. Once that's deployed, we move every the following January 1st. Every GP becomes an LP in this fund. I expect that to happen within a two year period, maybe 18 months because we're raising $200 million.

I think we'll have it done by April. And it'll be deployed within an 18 to 24 month window. At that time, all gps become an LP except for King Operating who remains the sponsor and head.

Mike Pine: Awesome. And we're not tax attorney, we're not attorneys or lawyers and we're not allowed to offer legal advice.

Kevin Schneider: Definitely not.

Mike Pine: But if you speak to a lawyer, I think they tell you by being a limited partner, the whole point of being a limited partner is you have limited liability. So that's another really cool function.

I think that occurs in run and [00:24:00] well structured oil and gas investments. 

I'm gonna go into an area that you already mentioned you think is not the greatest area of investment. I'm gonna go ahead and confess to you, Eric, and please don't lose too much respect for me. But I went ahead and actually today they're putting on all the solar panels I purchased this year and I did it for tax play.

Everyone and I think it's media pushed, but everyone and not everyone, but most people in the public are pushing green energy investments. They're saying it's the new it's the new, the, it's gonna, it's gonna change the world. It's gonna make us energy independent. I haven't seen that happen yet.

But do you think green energy investments are a good investment? Are they gonna help the economy? And how will they impact oil and gas investments over the next decade or two?

Eric Rice: So like I said, my first interview question here was, why do you want to get into oil and gas? And my response was truthful and impactful. Now it's not completely like home energy solar paneling. It has benefits. So you get tax write offs for certain. 

[00:25:00] To answer your question, I'll answer your question with statistics so you don't have my opinion.

Okay. 10 years ago, the E S G Green Energy, green New Deal Project began, right? It was this huge push. The interesting thing is our media can convince you to eat, tires off of your car. And 40% of the country is gonna eat tires off of their car because some doctor they paid told them that, rubber insoles from your shoes are healthy for your kidneys.

Here's the stats. 10 years ago they started investing in green energy. They've deployed 10 trillion, 10 years ago.

The world energy, the most of the energy being used on planet Earth came from oil, gas, and coal, primarily. Oil and gas. Coal is very little used in cleaner energy countries, 87%. 10 years ago, 87% of the world's energy came from oil and gas and coal. After 10 years, 10 trillion, it's now down to 86%.

So if what they're telling me is such a good investment for our future, then why is it producing a 1% return over a decade? Because that's the end [00:26:00] result. EVs, they, it takes 800 barrels of oil to create an EV battery. You have to move 650,000 of tons of dirt to get enough cobalt to create an EV battery that's done with diesel fuel.

Every train runs on diesel. The shipping boats that come from China run on diesel, they have 3.2 million gallons of diesel oil in every boat that delivers every solar panel. So it's called offsetting emissions. Offsetting emissions is a topic that if you mention it on certain platforms with stats and figures, you'll be censored from them.

At least at this point. Hopefully that'll free up offsetting emissions. So your average ev, which doesn't emit any carbon into the air once it's produced, It has two things that basic logic denotes. Number one, how did you make it without oil and gas? Cuz you can't, every factory is run on natural gas.

You're looking at about the, I think the last numbers they came out with were 12.6 years. By the time you buy an ev, 12.6 years of [00:27:00] carbon have been emitted into the atmosphere already. So it's that fake virtue signal. And don't get me wrong, I think Teslas are great and they're like, everyone has a right to do what they want.

That's one side of things, offsetting emissions. The other side of this with the EVs is how do you charge them? You charge them from a wall. So California has this big push for solar panels and everyone's getting solar pan. By the way, the solar panels are being removed from all Amazon facilities, cuz two of them burn down because of the solar panels.

Everyone should know that. Two full facilities full of products burned down because the solar panels shorted and lit themselves on fire. When you light a roof of a building on fire, the whole building burns. So that's a real reality. But in California it's interesting because solar's gonna solve their power grid problems.

However, as soon as they started having shortages a month ago, an email was sent to every California resident telling them, don't charge your car between six and 9:00 PM. So if solar was providing that much energy, you would think that if you [00:28:00] have solar panels in your house, you could still charge your Tesla.

I love the tax benefits of it. I'm not against solar, but I'm against ignorance of solar. So the beauty I see in solar for the home is that it provides an independent grid. So you're storing energy because we are going to see blackouts in 2023. It's just it's just inevitable With the lack of careful fine tooth comb in our energy processes in this country, you are going to see them.

So solar power will allow you independence. So of your neighbors may lose their power, you'll still have a day or two of energy. There's a benefit to that along with the taxes. But in general, I live, we live in, we're all in Dallas, right? When I moved here in December, 2020 and in January, 2021, my lights were flickering for four or five consecutive days because all the wind turbines froze.

That was a big eyeopener for many people. I think we lost 360 people in five counties died because wind farms couldn't produce enough energy to keep people's basic lights on. So is there a benefit to [00:29:00] solar? Yeah. You get a great tax write off and you have some energy independence in your home.

There's a myth of, oh, you'll make money on it. Feeding the grid. I'm sorry. There's these huge floaty things in the sky that happen to block the energy source for about 30% of the day and it restricts your ability to harvest. Or if it's, God forbid, it snows on your panels, you don't have any sun, what'll always happen, oil and gas will turn on your lights and light your stove.

24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Kevin Schneider: So I guess we're gonna go tear down Mike Solar panels as soon as he puts them

Eric Rice: Nah, not keep em. You'll have independence.

Do you know what the number one accessory of Tesla owners was in 2022? Portable gas generators.

Mike Pine: So what did I do? I've got solar panels, but I've also installed a generator that's gonna run off a natural gas that hopefully King operating and other people will continue providing me natural gas.

So when the power does go out and it's not daytime, I have no electricity. Hopefully I'll stay warm at night. So I wanna plug again, we have a bonus content page. If [00:30:00] you go to hidden money.com/bonus, you'll see some bonus content and that's what we'll get into a lot more of the details of the nitty gritty.

So please check that out if you're interested in the nitty gritty. Otherwise, big pictures right here on the Hidden Money Podcast. Any closing thoughts, Eric, before we close out this, I think you've been awesome.

Thank you.

Eric Rice: My pleasure. My pleasure. Ton of fun. Just make sure that you're using not just your head to invest right now, but using your heart.

Invest in domestic things. Invest in things that promote America. 90% of our exchange traded operations have foreign interest involved in them. Support this country with your money, support it with your time, and support your family. With both of those two things, I think that's most important, and God bless every person who listened to this call.

Mike Pine: What a great closing comment.

Kevin Schneider: Eric. It was a pleasure having you. You are just a wealth of knowledge in this space and we're just grateful to have it here.

Mike Pine: Want to tie it on? There is hidden money from the tax code in oil and gas, and please do check out the bonus content. I'm hoping we can get Eric. He [00:31:00] gave me a lot of info the other day on the supply and demand issue for oil and gas here, and I'm gonna hopefully grab him for a few more minutes to get into that nitty gritty details.

Pretty fascinating, but thank you for joining us. We'll see you next week on hidden money.com. Thank you.

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