Stop Tipping the Government: Tax Myths Keeping You Over-Taxed

Kevin: [00:00:00] Well, have you ever seen the TV show MythBusters? I have or they, those two scientists, they get these crazy like scientific myths and they try to bust 'em and they either debunk 'em or they say, yeah, this actually works. 

Mike: It actually irritates me. 'cause some of the ones they bust are ones that I believed in and even told people like my kids that though we were real.

Mike: But yeah. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. 

kevin: So today, Mike and I are, we're gonna be kind of your MythBusters today. We're gonna go over seven myths about taxes and. The first one and the biggest one. The whole crux of this podcast, the whole crux of our whole career is that the internal Revenue code is not your enemy.

Mike: Tax law is not your enemy. It's not. [00:01:00] I hate it when people say that. I hate the fact that the super majority of this country believes that, um, that's what we are trying to change. That's our mission in this life, or at least our vocational mission in this life, is to convince you, no, the tax code is not your enemy.

Mike: The tax code could be the. Best friend you've ever had in creating your wealth and financial freedom? 

kevin: Yeah, it could be a huge asset for you. Now, are taxes the enemy? They, I think they're good and bad. I think it, it serves two purposes, but you shouldn't pay any more than you're legally obligated to. And so if we could utilize and leverage off the internal revenue code for your wealth generation, what if we just took through a different lens, the view of taxes instead of this, this heavy burden of obligation I have to do every April?

kevin: What if we viewed it as this is an. An actual asset to my life and I'm able to actually [00:02:00] generate some sort of savings off, you know, what I'm supposed to be, uh, actually paying. I'm saving that in taxes and reinvesting that and growing my wealth. 

Mike: Yeah. Let me ask you this. If someone came to you, I mean, pretend that you're not a tax guy, right?

Mike: Pretend that Okay. Pretend that you're not Kevin Schneider. Sure. If someone came to you and said, I can guarantee you a way that you can double your ROI. Every year on whatever investments you're making. Mm-hmm. Would you be interested? I'd, i'd, yeah, I'd have a coffee with you. I can guarantee you the listener right now, that there is a way to increase your ROI on your wealth generation on creating your financial freedom.

Mike: Guaranteed. If you haven't started unraveling the incentives, the benefits, the power behind the tax code that is there for your taking. You need to start now. Listen up. S like and subscribe to this podcast 'cause we're gonna show you a [00:03:00] lot of 'em. There's a whole lot of goodness in the tax code. And I love the tax code.

Mike: I live and breathe the tax code. Kevin and I nerd out on the tax code because it is that powerful. We're not, we're not making this up just to sound splashy. Seriously. Yeah. We're not. We love it. 

kevin: Yeah. And we actually have clients that love filing taxes and we're gonna get into a different myth later, but, um, just because you get a refund, it's not.

kevin: Always good. Um, so yes, view the view the whole tax filing process, even though it may be confusing and cumbersome with the forms and the schedules and the deadlines and all this stuff. Get a professional to help weed through that mess with you and actually view taxes as a good thing every April because you've enacted a strategy all January through the prior January through December.

kevin: If you did not do any planning January through December, and then you have to file your taxes that follow in April. Yeah, I, I might be dreading my taxes [00:04:00] too, because one. You don't have a plan. If you don't have a plan, it's not gonna go well and you don't know what to expect. You're like, I think I'm withholding.

kevin: I don't know. I'm gonna take my W2, or I'm gonna put it on here. My wife works. I'm gonna put her W2 on here. We're gonna see what comes out the other end. And hopefully I'm in a better position than I, I don't, hopefully I don't owe. Um, that's a scary place to be if you're making substantial money, or even if you're not making substantial money.

kevin: I mean, 

Mike: can I jump on my soap box just for 30 seconds? Sure. And then we can move on. The myth that the tax code is your enemy is hurting you. If you've bought into that, understand what the tax code is. The internal revenue code is the law that creates our tax system. It's the highest. Authority in our tax law understand what's gone into it.

Mike: Our government, our society has elected the people that are in our government to get together, to establish a way, one, to fund our military fund. Helping [00:05:00] people that are less fortunate create a good nation to live in, right? But they're also getting together and figuring out, Hey, wait. We're not in the Communist society.

Mike: We can't force businesses to create this product or that product. We can't force, um, real estate developers to create affordable housing. What they can do though is offer incentives to get the kind of things they want done. Done. They offer incentives for affordable housing. Bonus depreciation, baby. You can make money by following that incentive, and if you're doing it, guess what?

Mike: You're doing your patriotic duty. You should do that, and you're paying lower taxes. Same thing for oil and gas. Our nation needs energy independence. Our nation needs to be hopefully a net exporter of energy. We can do that. How does the government make that happen? They don't. I mean, some governments try to make it dictate.

Mike: Look at Venezuela, that's their dictate. They're supposed to pro produce a bunch of oil and gas. Um, and as soon as the government took over, it [00:06:00] stops. But the incentive system that works in this country, it's capitalism, is America one of the greatest, greatest nations, if not the best ever, is offering incentives to those in capitalism to.

Mike: Do what helps our nation. And if you do it, you are reducing the taxes you pay. Consider the time value of money, the value of compounding. Every dollar you save today can be $30 when you retire. Tax code should be your best friend, not your enemy. It's a good one. 

kevin: Myth number two, I'm a high W2 earner and there's nothing I can do.

kevin: I hear that a lot. A lot of our consultations on the front end. Um. Or from CPA saying, Hey, it is what it is. Make sure your withholdings are good. Make, if you're itemizing, maybe we could do some creative things there, but by and large, max out your 401k. Make sure you're doing that. Are you doing that? Yep.

kevin: You've done everything. You do. You're, what else can you do? You don't have a business that you can [00:07:00] run a vehicle through or pay your kids or write off your cell phone or home office or anything, so you're just stuck paying taxes. You're stuck. So you're, and you 

Mike: paid a tax advisor to tell you that. 

kevin: I hate that.

kevin: Yeah, that that is a big myth. There are multiple strategies out there to massively reduce W2 income. One of 'em require two of them that I can think of off the top of my head. Requires zero hours or work. It just takes capital and risk, and you can substantially knock away your W2 bill. Huge one would require a little bit more effort.

kevin: 'cause there's little, there is no such thing as a free lunch, right? So anytime we're dealing with tax planning against the W2, you're gonna have to have, have some at risk. You're gonna have to have potentially some involvement of time, um, commitment to this, uh, plan. Meaning you have to meet certain material participation guidelines to actually [00:08:00] get the active tax loss.

kevin: Um. 

Mike: In a lot of cases, people are doing that anyways and just not realizing they could take a tax benefit against their W2. Correct. 

kevin: Yeah. Um, they already have the plan set up. We just need to actually educate. They've actually been 

Mike: doing it, they just didn't know they could get tax benefits, so that's where tax planning can really be fun is when it aligns with what you're doing in your life already, which you've already done, and realizing there's fruit to pick from the tax code to reduce your taxes big time.

Mike: Yes. Even if you're a W2 taxpayer. 

kevin: That's right. And so really the, going back to our first point, the internal revenue code's, not your enemy, it's the lack of education, which is why we do this. If you're educated on what you can and can't do with your tax situation, that could change everything because, um, if we're able to invest our money and reduce our W2 income at the same time, you're getting a jumpstart on that investment right out of the gate.

kevin: And we can calculate with that. That savings are gonna be. So that's a huge one. Um, that it's a very [00:09:00] big myth out there. I mean, you can even go to chat GPT and say, how do I reduce my W2 income? It's not gonna hit. Um, maybe not yet. We tried 

Mike: that. We put it in chat. We do that about once a month chat, GPT gr, there, they, it's some of 'em.

Mike: But yeah. Um, gives us some kind of confidence that AI is not gonna replace us immediately. The next one I want to get into, Kevin. It. Yeah, it, it's like chalk. You've heard this more than me on a chalkboard. You have heard this. It tries me nuts. It's so wrong. But this myth I've heard generally over and over again, and generally it's from people who have been doing tax strategy, um, or so they think just not good strategy.

Mike: They've hired a strategist or a tax preparer that calls himself a strategist. They say, and, and I hear this again, well, my guy or my gal told me I should pay a little bit of extra taxes every couple years just to keep the government happy and off my back. I should overpay my taxes every once in a while just to keep my gov, the government off my back.

Mike: [00:10:00] No. No. Why? No, that's not what the tax code says. Why would you do that? I hate that. It's not true. 

kevin: No, the only way it's true. It's not. But the only thing I can, I'm trying to put myself in that, in their shoes. If you had a, a potential business with multiple years of losses, I can see adding income to make a profit.

kevin: But still at the same point, there's no, there's nothing that says you can't be a for-profit business and make losses for 3, 4, 5, 6 years. It's gonna increase your audit risk. But if they're legit losses, why? I just defend him. Yes. You just have to prove what's the problem to prove 

Mike: that you're truly doing this activity for a profit motive.

Mike: Yeah. And you are doing everything you can to make money. And 

kevin: you actually heard this from, um, one of our clients who's actually, he's kind of turned a, a 180 kind of in his whole theology of how we. Yeah, he did. He handles taxes and 

Mike: he was told he had a fishing boat operation that was a true business. He didn't do it for fun, he wasn't out there doing it.

Mike: He had a captain that would [00:11:00] take people out. He owned the boat, take people out fishing. Um, and it was, it was hard. They weren't doing enough marketing. He was constantly trying to tool with him, figure out. And this wasn't 

kevin: his full-time job? 

Mike: No, it was not his, it was a side gig and, and he really didn't spend much time at it.

Mike: He had a captain doing most of the work, uh, which turned out to be part of the reason he wasn't making money, and it was just the wrong captain. But his prior CPA had said, no, you cannot show that. Have a loss three years in a row. We're gonna have to not take some deductions every couple years to put you in profit so you pay taxes.

Mike: Otherwise, IEN call this a Hobby Boone, if you can prove that it's a true business. You original economic intent was and continues to be to make money and it's not a tax shelter. I don't have to make up money, make up income to pay the IRS taxes. Don't do that. Please don't do that. Another one I heard, and I actually, this was a few years ago, Kevin and I got to talk to the CPA who told 'em this.

Mike: They said, well, you have to pay a little bit in each and every year. And I didn't understand the thinking. [00:12:00] Um, but it was one of those where it was a retiring CPA and he was willing to talk to me so we could get some background after we, as we were onboarding the client and. The client wasn't there, so I, I was just honest with him.

Mike: This was before we started recording all our calls. I said, he told me, you said that he needs to pay money every once in a while in taxes that he doesn't otherwise need to pay just to keep the government off his back. Did, did you really say that? And a guy. Owned it. He was proud of it. He said, yes, I did.

Mike: I believe that. I said, why? He said, well, you know, the government wants to know that everyone's paying their fair share, and if they see someone not paying any taxes for a few years, they're gonna become a target. But if they pay some taxes in one year, they come off that target list. It's a fairytale. It's 

kevin: a, it's not true.

kevin: It's an expensive target. I mean, you're just, you're basically trying to just pay the government to go away and when you don't have to. 

Mike: We, we don't know all the details of the logarithms that are working at the IRS's computers. Um, but to the best of our ability. [00:13:00] And we have people that come out of the service that are able to share some, and they still have NDAs.

Mike: None of them say that there's some overarching, granted, this is before ai. Maybe in 10 years from now there will be some AI looking at stuff like that, but there's not some overarching theme where they're checking every taxpayer, making sure they pay taxes once in a while. That's nonsense. So 

kevin: yeah. And then the next myth, mi myth number four.

kevin: Is, I've heard this many times where they say, I, I don't want to take deduction. I, I don't want to take these certain deductions because they're gonna cause a red flag. It's too much deduction, it's too much. And we actually had a client even say that probably about 30 days ago, it was about a month ago.

kevin: They're like, are you sure? This seems like it's too much deduction. Are you sure we can do this? We're like, yes, you 

Mike: can do this. They, they think that, hey, all these incentives that Congress put into the tax code applies to everyone else, but only if you do it a little bit. Don't do it a little too much.

Mike: That's, I hate that. Yeah. That's lazy. 

kevin: [00:14:00] It's like, just defend your position and go be, be confident in the position and the strategy you've set forth and take it. Don't just dip your toes in the water. Jump in. Just get everything that's allocated to you and don't be scared of red flags. We just did a podcast.

kevin: If you haven't listened to it, you need to. The red flags and why we are trying to make a case for you not to be scared of red flags. There's no need to be so long. We don't want to be malicious with our reporting and just cause. Unnecessary red flags. But if we're doing our job, we're causing red flags.

kevin: Make a million dollars, come see us. We'll mop off half a million of your taxable income. I mean, not guaranteed. It depends on your circumstances, but just. Hypothetically speaking, if we lop off half of your taxable income at that income level, that's a red flag, but it's gonna save you $250,000 in tax. 

Mike: So really what it comes down to is you have the option in this myth.

Mike: Either choose to overpay your taxes by not taking deductions, you are legally allowed and entitled to take [00:15:00] or. Spend a little extra time or even a little extra money with a better strategist, that's gonna build an audit defense file and substantiate each and every position that you're taking. That might be a red flag, um, and be able to defend it and sleep like a baby, knowing that if you do get audited, you have not cheated once on your tax return, and you have all of the proof to substantiate every one of your tax positions in the background.

Mike: Just waiting to send to the IRS when they. Send you a notice. 

kevin: That's right. And I believe so much in this that we developed a audit defense plan at our firm to where in the event that we do a tax plan and the risk is too much, you're like, this is too much deduction. Okay, I'll defend it. For a set fee, you pay me a set fee of, let's say, $3,000.

kevin: I'm just making this up, 3000 bucks. And if you are audited, even if that time is 10 to $20,000 of me and my team's time to defend it, you've already paid for it. So hedge against that fear if you have it. But do not. Shave off deductions just for the [00:16:00] sake of it, just to not draw attention. 

Mike: In case you haven't figured out, Kevin and I are big believers that you should pay every dollar you're legally obligated to pay the government, but not a penny more.

Mike: Don't tip the government unless you think they're doing an amazing job. And if you do, I, I'd rather you could probably do a better job than that. Yeah, I, I'm pretty certain of it. 

kevin: Number five. Um, the more money you make, the more you pay in tax. Is that true? I mean, on, on the surface it's very true. Yeah. I mean, we have a tier tax system of brackets, so the more money you make.

kevin: Literally, the more money you pay in taxes, the higher we're your saying tax bracket 

Mike: is? Yes. 

kevin: Saying look a little deeper behind this of why it's a myth. Why is this myth? 

Mike: Where I wrestle with the myth are here is when we have clients that are starting to accelerate in their careers or in their businesses and they haven't made a lot of money for a while.

Mike: Um, maybe they spent their first 10 years building the business, barely making a hundred grand each year. And now they're starting to make a lot more, um, usually they come to us after the point and they say, look. [00:17:00] I was only making a hundred grand for 10 years, but now I'm making 500. My CPA said, Hey, look, you make more, you're gonna have to pay more in taxes.

Mike: There's not, you have to pay that. That's the part where it's, you do not have to pay more money or in taxes just because you made more money. You have more opportunities. The more money you make, the more opportunities you have to reduce your taxes. 

kevin: The more, the more money you make is just math. You have more capital, you have more to invest and you can invest differently than what you've typically been taught.

kevin: Um, we can educate you on tax advantageous investing, investing in things that reduce your taxes and generate a return. There's, there's many products out there, um, but you're exactly right. The more you make, technically the more tax you're gonna pay just given at the surface level of the brackets. 

Mike: Yep.

kevin: The devil's in the details. You have to get into it and say, what am I doing with this new wealth and with this high bracket I'm in, what am I doing? Because now every dollar I'm saving at the [00:18:00] higher brackets, I'm saving more in tax. I'm not saving 20% for every dollar, I'm saving 37 cents per dollar. So your tax savings go up the more you, you, you plan with at higher brackets.

Mike: Yep. Let's get onto this next one that it's gonna be hard for me, Kevin, not to go on the diatribe about 

kevin: I, and you might even, you might be believing this too, um, that tax refunds are free money. It's a payday. Congrats. You got a payday. Uh, 'cause you got a huge refund. 

Mike: There are two ways this myth evolves.

Mike: One is, Hey, I got a refund. It's so much better than having to pay tax. And, um, even though they might have known what the plan was, it feels better at the time. Not to me it doesn't. Well, because what it means to me is I, you know how it works. I gave the government, the federal government an interest free loan, got nothing out of it.

Mike: They're not paying me interest. It really means I overpaid my taxes and gave them an interest free loan. I don't like that. I mean, [00:19:00] I have clients that I completely understand. They would much rather get a refund than have to send a check in for a couple thousand dollars, but I do my best to keep that refund a smaller amount.

Mike: Right? It's not an interest-bearing account. If you need to save money so you can go on vacation once a year, put in a money market account, put in a cd, get interest on it, don't give it to the government and lose it. Let them do whatever they do with your money and just. Give it back to you without any interest at the end of the year.

kevin: Yeah, and where this pops up a lot too, is when you have W2 married couple, and let's say they're each making 2 50, 300 each, they're making, they're well into the top tax bracket, paying their fair share withholdings. Where this does come into play a lot of the times is we'll do tax planning around these two W2.

kevin: Individuals, and we'll take their $600,000, this hypothetical 600, and we'll drop it into the two hundreds or the hundreds even, or maybe we've even, we with a hundred percent bonus. You can eliminate it. Then at that point, they're getting all that withholding [00:20:00] refunded back to them. So a refund is not a bad thing in this.

kevin: It means they planned. But also realize it's not free money. This isn't, this is money that you earned. This is your money. You're getting back and 

Mike: that was taken from you. Yes. 

kevin: And levied against you, and you're just getting it back into your pocket. Where the way to kind of shield yourself from that is, let's say halfway through the year, you start tax planning.

kevin: You can actually stop your withholding. And I walk, I counsel my clients through this. I'm like, Hey, there's risk if you stop your withholding. Yeah, you're gonna get more. Take home today. You might owe in April. Mm-hmm. But you're not gonna be withholding anything from July forward or 

Mike: very little. So a fair balance is if, if, and we see that a lot when they're gonna do their best to implement a tax strategy, but it's no guarantee it's gonna be implemented before the end of the year.

Mike: Right. So instead of giving the money to the government, which is harder to get back from, and you don't get interest. Do what Kevin says, eliminate your withholding or reduce it substantially. Take that leftover money. Each paycheck, put it in bearing account [00:21:00] that you have control over that's earning you money.

Mike: Could 

kevin: be earning 4% on a high yield. I mean you, and then depending on the amount of taxes you're paying, that's significant money. Significant. 

Mike: We go to the other side where this myth happens. Um, and this one drives me more crazy than anything else out there. You know, have you ever seen those man in the street interviews?

Mike: Um, seen them on the news channels every once in a while, and they always do this after tax day on April 15th or April 16th, or April 14th, and they go interview people in the street and they say, how much money did you pay in taxes? And almost to a t. Everyone says, I didn't pay anything. I got a refund this year.

Mike: Oh God, no. The government paid me. That was great. They, they didn't. I mean, this is part of the scam of, uh, of the way our government collects money, and they'd started this in 1913 with the constitutional amendment to allow them to levy tax on income. They learned that, hey, even though we passed this amendment [00:22:00] promising, we're only gonna tax the richest people 1% of their income.

Mike: That lasted a few, a few years, and then eventually, within a decade got up to 90% of their income. But anyways, they're saying the gover, the people are not gonna like this. So what we do is in institute a required withholding system where employers have to take the, the employee's money, a certain amount of it, and send it to the IRS.

Mike: So if the I, if the people never see the money, they don't think it's theirs, even though they work their tails off to earn it, even though it is their money by. Any definition of what's theirs versus what's the governments, in my opinion. Um, but the government does this to snooker the public to think that those men in the street and those women in the street, that they didn't pay taxes, they got a refund.

Mike: What happened is the government is deceiving you. They pulled the wool over your eyes. You get a refund in your happy, which you don't realize. 'cause most people don't study page two of their 10 40 much, you paid in a lot of taxes. If you got a little bit of it back, [00:23:00] government made you feel good, you didn't realize, and it's, it's all swept under the rug.

Mike: You still paid a ton of taxes. Just 'cause you got a refund does not mean you shouldn't be doing tax strategy and tax planning 'cause your refund probably wasn't big enough and it's your money in the first place you did pay taxes. Gosh. 

kevin: Yeah. And that's another part of tax planning when we actually plan with clients is looking at your total tax on page two.

kevin: That is what we're after. We're after eliminating, reducing total tax on page two of your 10 40. Not refund, not not refund. So we could be doing some major tax planning and they're gonna be like, I still owe tax. I still pay in. I'm like, yep, but you would've paid this, but you're paying this. Uh, you know, it's, look at total tax.

kevin: Not refund. I'm not worried about refund. Now, that could jumpstart some cashflow things, but I'm not after a refund. I'm after reducing your taxes, and then we can kind of play with the refund as we need. 

Mike: For our listeners out there, I don't know the exact line, it's on page two of your 10 40. The line number changes every year, so I quit [00:24:00] memorizing line numbers.

Mike: But look at page two and you're gonna see taxes paid in, total tax due. That's it's, it's about two thirds down. Closer to the middle part of the page, but total tax is what you need to look at. Yep. That includes all of your taxes. 

kevin: Um, you're blindly paying that your employer's probably withholding that cash for you, and then that total tax will shock you.

kevin: Your refund may be 2000 bucks, but you've paid in 80,000 of tax. 

Mike: And you're happy with the $2,000 refund? Come on, man. The street. You should be getting a $40,000 

kevin: refund. 

Mike: Oh, I need to go do, can we do a hidden money man on the street? One of these years? I'll go and I'll just, I, I will convince the public 

kevin: this one won't anger you as much though.

kevin: This last one, number seven. But it's a very common myth and it's a lot of education, is that all the states are the same. And the state tax law is the same as federal tax law, which isn't the case. 'cause there's so many instances. California, it's the worst state. For, to do bus in my, [00:25:00] I'm in, I'm in Texas.

kevin: You know, we're in the best state, I think. Yeah, in my opinion. But to go to California, there's such a difference in, in, in how taxation works in Texas versus California. In California, we could ta, if you're a resident at California, we could. Drastically eliminate so much of your federal taxes and then basically unwind all that we did for California.

kevin: 'cause California's gonna be like, huh? Yeah, we know. The federal government says you can do, uh, bonus depreciation. We know that they, we understand, not in our state. I. Not, not, you ain't doing that here. 

Mike: The big difference is, is California can't print money when they run out of it. So they actually have to collect the taxes so they, they get rid of all the deductions.

Mike: Um, and every state's different. And some states, like in Ohio is, is really gotten rough lately. They have so many taxing authorities and districts. It's not just the state income tax, it's the county tax, it's the city tax, it's another tax. I mean, they've got, have we seen clients have. For jurisdiction.

Mike: Same thing in New York [00:26:00] City. You got the Borough tax, you got the NTA, the Metro Transit Authority, the subway that, that you probably don't ride because it's too dangerous these days. You've got that tax, you've got so many different taxes. Uh, not all states are created the same. And this is why I disagree with you greatly about the salt cap.

Mike: If you have, if everyone's allowed to deduct all their state income taxes, Kevin, um, like we used to be able to do, there's no incentive on the politicians in that state to actually be good with their money. They say, Hey, yeah, we're taking a lot of taxes from you, but guess what? You were able to deduct on your federal taxes.

kevin: But come over to my side, man. Since salt, since the salt limit's been 10,000, have you seen a big drastic change in their spending? 

Mike: I've seen a big drastic change of people leaving California and New York and moving to Texas. And Tennessee. And Florida. Yes. Yeah. And they're bringing their business here 

kevin: it, which that is good.

kevin: I don't know if that's the salt cap. It could be partially. It's partially it, I think, but also the state income tax over there is so high, but. Every state [00:27:00] is different too. And so that's why if you, if we tax, if you're a California resident and we tax plan on the federal side, we also have to take into account states.

kevin: And you could be in different states which have different tax laws. And, uh, Tennessee, Florida taxes, hey, not, not too much to worry about there, but some states do take bonus depreciation or they might take a little. Little different piece of it, just a little differently. So just don't think, Hey, I'm a California resident, I just did this amazing tax plan and I'm home free.

kevin: Well, you still have to file your state taxes and you could still be getting hurt. Yes. Hard on the states. 

Mike: Yes. But don't think there's nothing you can do. You still can tax plan in those states. Um. It's just harder. Um, and just be aware you can eliminate your federal taxes in some years and still pay a lot of taxes in your state if, if they have an income tax.

kevin: Yeah. 

Mike: We'd just move to taxes. Exactly. That's what I was gonna throw in there. That's fine. Come to Texas. Um, we have great business environment here [00:28:00] and really good tax strategists at Texas. Yeah. And no cap gains. I mean, it's great. Yeah. Be sure to like and subscribe this show so you can be kept in the know of any developing rules coming out, any new tax strategies coming out.

Mike: Kevin and I will bring them to you here. Hidden money.

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